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I didn’t find my current (or any) serious relationship on a dating app, but I got a ton of utility out of my decade using them, along with the attendant frustration. I moved to New York at 25 and knew like two people, and for years I went on multiple dates most weeks. (This was the early 2010s, so they were from OkCupid.) I met some cool people and a ton of less-cool people, but more than anything I built my mental map of the city and figured out what I liked to do in it. I went to a zillion bars and restaurants and events that I probably wouldn’t have otherwise, and I figured out what I wanted my social life to be like and what neighborhood I wanted to live in and what kind of people I wanted to be around, as friends and more. I had a genuinely cinematic half-decade or so before I was ready to settle down a little bit toward the end—exciting, unpredictable, sometimes maddening. Dating apps are imperfect and weren’t the thing that ever got me into serious relationships, but they were a useful tool for plenty of other valuable things for me.

Dating feels bad in any era and might genuinely be worse in some ways now, but I think happiness in any circumstance is going to be in part dependent on your willingness to use the tools available to you and your creativity in using them. Deciding that dating apps are de facto bad or useless seems like cutting off a lot of opportunity out of fear, I think.

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Amanda <3 I really love this.

I have had really great dates from dating apps (including several-year long relationships) and pretty awful, confusing situations. But I really like what you said about the mental map of the city. I think in general, meeting a lot of people and opening yourself up to them is a... self-induced experiment.

A few years ago when I worked at New York Magazine, I accompanied Wendy Goodman on a tour of artist Michele Oka Doner’s home. Oka Doner had this advice to treat romance like a science experiment -- you put two ingredients together and see how they react. Sometimes it explodes, sometimes it creates something better. I think people get so hung up on the first date -> photo together on Instagram -> wedding date photo holding aperol spritzes -> kids... instead of just creating chemistry.

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100%: "Dating feels bad in any era and might genuinely be worse in some ways now, but I think happiness in any circumstance is going to be in part dependent on your willingness to use the tools available to you and your creativity in using them. Deciding that dating apps are de facto bad or useless seems like cutting off a lot of opportunity out of fear, I think."

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There are few instances in life where it's totally appropriate to sit opposite a total stranger sipping cocktails and ask them a string of intimate questions - maybe I'm just chronically curious, but this strikes me as pretty wonderful indeed <3

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Oct 8·edited Oct 8Liked by Emily Sundberg

A revolutionary idea: Instead of banning backpacks in schools, perhaps the U.S. could ban fire arms! Just an idea here.

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Oct 8Liked by Emily Sundberg

"if you do not leave your house, you will probably not have a great time dating" - yes yes yes and further, that you won't have a great time in life generally, either! this is a really beautiful world. Go out there, talk to people, compliment them, ask them questions, be curious! Life happens when you step outside the door!

I was work-obssesssed for my first few years in NYC, and took no days off. I relied on college friends who moved here from California around the same time as me for socializing. Then, one by one, they all moved. By the time COVID hit, I was the last one standing. Lucky for me I had a photo project that connected me with new people, and gradually I built new friendships. But it was HARD. I had to really put myself out there, talk to people, and get over the fear of rejection. I know this article is about dating specifically, but I think the same advice applies to friendships as well. I still have to push myself to do it - and not everyone is going to be a homie... but the life only happens when I put myself out there!

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Oct 9Liked by Emily Sundberg

I’m in a situation like this currently. Not looking for dating as I’m just out of a super long and emotionally intense thing. But now that I’m back in my hometown and don’t have a ton in common with high school friends (or they left and didn’t return like me), I just want to have a friend group again.

Have thought maybe I should be more ok with solitude, and after further consideration still just think friends are kinda important for happiness.

Sorry for not offering much..

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I love this <3

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Oct 8Liked by Emily Sundberg

“Sometimes the right sweater to makeout in is the one you haven’t worn in a while.” ❤️‍🔥 so good

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It's true! There's an art to this...

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Oct 8·edited Oct 8Liked by Emily Sundberg

I actually met my boyfriend on Hinge. I had been on dating apps for about a year, and even though I loved to complain about them, every date taught me something new about myself and helped me grow. When I met my boyfriend, it was a last-minute date on a Sunday. I was having a bad day and just wanted to see a movie but didn’t want to go alone. I called him and 15 minutes later, he was outside my house. On that date, I felt something I’d never felt before—I knew it was different. We’ve seen each other every day since, and now we live together with our miniature dachshund. So please people, go on the date, you never know what might happen 🤍

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I def agree with this! Many times I’ve been like ugh I’m tired or I want to keep watching tv / reading and not leave my apartment but I push myself cause even if we never see each other again, I met a new person, learned a new perspective, or even went to a new bar / neighborhood or tried a new drink / dish.

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Commenting to nominate my sister and her now husband to be in the next Hinge issue. The lights flickered back on in Feb of 2021 when they matched for the second time on Hinge. Bumble may have started the story in 2018, but Hinge turned the lights back on. I think there’s a whole column that could be written for the “right person, wrong time”. Some things do come back to you. My eyes are tearing up as I write this ❤️

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Oct 8Liked by Emily Sundberg

My 67 year old mom won’t stop talking about how NAD+ has made her the fastest swimmer at our local YMCA 🥲

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Ok glad both of our parents are YMCA swimmers. Nobody flexes harder than a dad at 8am who just came home with gossip about the swimming lane situation that day...

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Oct 8Liked by Emily Sundberg

That gossip is like NAD to me

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Oct 9Liked by Emily Sundberg

My mom is a YMCA swimmer!

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Oct 8Liked by Emily Sundberg

I'm all about meeting IRL - but time is so limited. Do you really want to go on another bad first date where you realize in 20 minutes that it's not the right fit, or go to a fun dinner with friends, or finally write that substack you always wanted to?

The problem with apps is that they suck at filtering. If you are looking for someone with a specific background, interests, or values - you absolutely can't filter for those on Hinge; and people's profiles are so generic (since they are public) that no one really shows who they really are. There's a reason why matchmakers work - you can be specific AND private about your preferences. There's an issue around affordability.... but that's why I am building Sitch :) https://download.joinsitch.com/

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Oct 8Liked by Emily Sundberg

‘The wait for a table is longer than quoted. The train is delayed in-between stops. Someone’s phone dies, and someone’s grandma dies, and someone has to deal with a work emergency. Lights flicker on and off, but then what people don’t tell you is that sometimes they flicker back on again.’

This was very good. When it comes to dating you just have to get out there and not underestimate the unswerving punctuality of chance.

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These things happen to me every day, and it's annoying, but it's life. When they happen during a date, it feels like the stars are misaligned and fate is taking over, but mindset is such a big part of navigating dating.

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Oct 8Liked by Emily Sundberg

I keep thinking about this more and more, that when you're using these dating apps and meeting people via them, your initial image of them is of course just their profile and the messages you exchange, and then when you meet up finally, the vibes can be so different, once you see them in action it can flip things, and it will fizzle out quick, where you were both once texting like crazy and thinking you had chemistry there. Whereas of course, when you choose to date people you meet/interact with in real life of course, I don't want to say feels more turn key, but it can feel a little more natural having that prior real life experience with them when you actually are going on dates. Being in a mostly remote job and having a lot of friends leave my city recently has really made this a challenge to make more of these in person connections. Trying to find a new job that gets me back out in the world more.

I'm not sure I have a singular point here, just rambling, ultimately I think the apps have been a benefit for me as I've met some great people through them and gone on some great dates, had a bunch of fun flings and relationships that never would have happened otherwise. I feel like they've also just made dating into a commodity, where sure, quality dates are available more readily then ever, but once you start with someone, and one side decides for any reason they aren't seeing what they want, or life happens, they're much more ready to pull the handle on the slot machine these apps are and move on to the next one.

Just gotta keep trying, being yourself, and putting yourself out there. The only way you lose is by giving up.

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These are all good points. When you meet someone "in the world" you get to take in their height, and voice, and body language. All things people can be seriously attracted to. On apps you lose that, but you also gain more opportunities to meet people I think. And experiment and be surprised. I think putting yourself out there is a big point of this letter. Trying new neighborhoods, and people, and activities. They all amount to building a more interesting, lived life.

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Absolutely! Thanks for the great post as always today!

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<3

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My son Andrew and his now wife Rebecca met on Hinge so I have a deep fondness for that company.

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I love Andrew!!!! <3

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Oct 8Liked by Emily Sundberg

Gracie looks amazing but really, strength training and weights across the board for all, even if you don't get those abs ;)

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Agree

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Oct 8Liked by Emily Sundberg

1. Covid broke everyone socially. I'm married with kids and even small talk with other parents (let alone trying to make new parent-friends) is a rough scene.

2. Small plates are such a scam! It's less food for more money.

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I want to hear more about talking to other parents!! What is it like? Just awkward/cold/stuck to phones?

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Oct 8·edited Oct 8Liked by Emily Sundberg

Oh, man. I could (should!) write an essay about this. But generally, new parents are stressed out by default, which makes easy-breezy conversations impossible. Add regular New York intensity to school dropoffs and pickups and you get a lot of weird/cold behavior, yes.

Also, parenting "style" is such a big deal now, so everyone is judging how everyone else interacts with their kids in public, which makes everyone self-conscious. It's like fashion in middle school, no one knows what they're doing and we're all trying to fit in or act like Dr. Becky.

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I'd read this essay.

Are you based in New York? I find the way parents post about their families/vacations/kids' lives really stressful and I'm not even married. Seems so competitive.

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Like anything else in life, you can choose to care about what other parents do / say / think, or not. I understand it may not be easy for everyone, but I've always been in the latter camp and I bet you will be too. Certainly don't add it to a list of things to worry about in parenthood!

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How did you deal with the attitudes of other parents and them wanting their children to interact with yours?

I regularly feel like if I’m not up to their standards or equal to the other dads career wise my daughter won’t have the opportunities for friendships she wants.

I’m 31. Most of friends parents in 40s.

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Oct 8Liked by Emily Sundberg

Yep, in Brooklyn. And the Status Olympics around family vaca/school choice/extracurricular activities are wild.

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Was the same parent games in Los Angeles. I lived in the valley and in Venice by the beach.

Very very hard to connect with any guys outside of what we did as hobbies. Even then it just felt like a new version of “what do you do for a living” type immediate judgements

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I can only imagine how amplified this is in L.A., the other epicenter of status seeking. With the barriers to male friendship on top of it, oof. It sounds like you opted out and hopefully you found somewhere easier.

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Everything is incredibly magnified with kids. For me it felt like there was no more “shrug it off” type mistakes, at least for a couple years while I adjusted. And you know everyone else is feeling the same. So your having these conversations about like the weather or the new coffee shop down the block, but your trying to like judge their priories, how they handle themselves, EVERYTHING, because your kids are over there bonding and you need to figure out who your about to invite over for a play date… into your bubble to quote someone else.

The stress of these interactions led me to lean on humor probably more than I should. It was just a difficult dynamic.

For reference I was 25 when I had my daughter, her mom was 34. Most of our friend group was generated by her mom and then I was responsible for like activities (skate lessons, teaching to surf, taking us camping). It was really really hard but so rewarding everyday. I’ve never grown or developed so much in so little time and my daughter really thrives now!

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I’ve been waiting to read long form media discussing the “COVID baby”

I was in the delivery room in early 2019, so squarely in the camp as well. No judgement. Was crazy raising a kid not to play with others tho for so long and THEN thrust them into acceptable social milestones for 3-5.

I’d love to hear from someone who really nailed it cause I know that wasn’t me!

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Phoebe!! Nail on the head. Small talk with other random parents sucks my soul away. I pride myself on being able to network with a brick wall—it genuinely means something that I am stymied in this area of life.

Birthday parties are particularly brutal. I now don’t go (or throw!) them.

I had a pandemic baby so I don’t know a different parental culture. Was it always this bad or did COVID do this to us?

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Sucks for us, but I’m glad to hear it’s not just me! My first kid was born about two years before the pandemic and hanging out with other moms felt a lot easier during that time. I haven’t really “hung out” in ages! I think the wariness of breaking your bubble hasn’t completely gone away, like there’s still a subconscious fear of other people, and it’s made everyone socially weird.

We still do birthday parties and they’ve gotten easier. But I totally understand opting out!

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Austin, I don’t think anyone has nailed it! In a way I think younger kids like ours had it a little easier than school-aged kids during the pandemic. I’m hopeful all of them will bounce back, but the long-term impact of that period is still TBD. I know for my son, it’s taken a long time for him to learn to do things independently because he was coddled at home by both parents AND a nanny during the years he should have been in a daycare/playgroup.

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Oct 9Liked by Emily Sundberg

For online interactions, I love clarifying questions for personal/professional/romantic situations. Really helps to reduce time spent reading through things that aren't relevant. I very rarely see this when I'm on apps.

If someone says "don't swipe if you like x" or what your non-negotiables are up front, or asks you to include something in the opener (proving they actually read the profile) that should cut quite a bit of noise. The only time I see it is when people say something like "no trump supporters please" but that's not specific enough, imo.

Someone asked me once what my thoughts were on Elon (pre-twitter acquisition), great way to get an idea of a persons values / if you'll mesh.

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Oct 8·edited Oct 8Liked by Emily Sundberg

I'm really interested/ impressed at how Hinge has maintained its reputation for being a 'friendly' dating app. I first used it in September 2020, and remember how nice it was to see so many new people and faces after the first lockdown. There was also something endearing about the collective sense of 'putting yourself out there'; that cocktail of slightly bashful-earnest-vulnerability. Bc essentially we're all just trying to be loved! (Full disclosure I met my partner on Hinge so my intel is out of date, and biased towards a positive experience with the app.)

I think something that might have soured dating apps' reputation is people screenshotting profiles and/ or sharing on social media. Not to clutch my pearls, but I think it's such a no! Even if the person is vile, I think it makes everyone worried that someone might do it to them, then we get more insecure, and insecurity makes us more judgemental.

Isamaya Ffrench has been talking about NAD for a while - I love her beauty commentary.

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I can ask their team to hop in the comments about the tone of the app, good point and congratulations on a success story :)

Agree with the screenshot thing but unfortunately I just assume nothing is private anymore, and that's the price of having any type of life online. It sucks.

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r/tinder on reddit.com

Basically complaining about all dating apps. I was hit with the headline “YOU actually swiped on ME?!?!?” with a blurred photo when I opened the app a couple days ago. So that’s the vibe usually.

Tinder came out like my second semester or year in college, and started out as this like super awkward friend hang out group thing. I’ve actually never had a “relationship” from los apps it’s always been more of a casual thing. Or people ignore and then message you at like 1am when I’m asleep or not interested in talking to someone for the first time lol

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There’s a full subreddit forum dedicated to this. It’s pretty gnarly and clutch worthy.

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Ignorance is bliss but knowledge is power - drop the link pls

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