Well now I'm dying to see The Substance! Have you read Rouge by Mona Awad? Weird, trippy, and all about the obsession with youth and beauty. (Think Glossier meets Death Becomes Her.)
Saw the movie on Saturday and it fully took me out for the evening. Hated how much of myself I saw in Elisabeth, especially within career. Is it even possible to not hate myself in 40 years?? I also kept flashing to Christina Aguilera and the new "undetectable era"
I was surprised with the length and indulgence of male gaze Margaret Qualley scenes there were. It made me hate my body more, and the men I was with listen up. Maybe that was the point. Would love to hear thoughts there
I thought some of the shots on Margaret's (awesome) ass were a little long as well, but I think it was supposed to make the viewer uncomfortable. It removed the sex for me, she became a total object.
for me it was less male gaze and more the fact that for some people - for me at least - our own gaze is as harmful and invasive and controlling and alienating. esp when she first stepped into the other self body and the way she was looking at herself and admiring and feeling herself. but also some of the Pump it Up scenes i think were trying (maybe not succeeding) to make MQ's physicality seem grotesque in its own way?
yeah def talking about the Pump it Up Scenes. I do think it's interesting she looked obviously so good yet the sex was taken away like you and Emily mentioned.
Saw this last night and I can’t believe I had to come to work this morning. Post Substance sick day should be compulsory.
Love LOVE your required reading references. I was so floored by how closely the final images (monster Elisasue) resemble the old black and white Elephant Man. It MUST have been on purpose and I want to tease it out further…
This was a niche reference, and someone told me not to include it, but I also kept thinking about all the apes in Chimp Crazy who got killed by their owners when everyone in the audience started shouting "FREAK! KILL IT!" at the end. People build and encourage monsters, and then want to destroy them once they're not what they thought they were.
There were some Elephant Man references on Reddit, you're on the money.
just saw it last night. this movie was fucking uncanny in its portrayal of my inner life lol. it was so much more than i expected. it had me thinking about understanding vanity not as a smug obsession with one's own beauty but, beauty or "ugliness" aside, as an inward turn away from the world - and i took the flat fakeness of the world around her as less a comment on hollywood being shallow and more on the fact that she was so consumed by her own self loathing that she barely existed on earth. it's about self harm and how hard it is to have cohesion between your happy self and your saddest self!! it also was so much about how consciousness and body are not separate and can't be separated!!!! even though she was one consciousness flipping between the two bodies, she effectively became a different consciousness in a different body, because your consciousness is your body and vice versa!!! omg i could go on. what a movie
Oh it makes me so happy that some of you have seen it, I needed people to discuss it with.
YES re: consciousness. The repetition by the phone operator, "You are one." I thought about this caption by Remi Bader also, which made me cry when I read it:
I also loved that the first words we hear from Elisabeth are "You don't want to look like a giant jellyfish," while teaching the workout class and then in that last scene... it's exactly what she looked like.
omg did not even notice the jellyfish connection 😭😭😭 incredible. also somehow it rly got me that the street cleaner at the end was the only person we ever saw try to be respectful of her and step carefully over the star.
Also saw this at Nitehawk last week which was the move. Seeing the Substance and reading All Fours in the same week made me oscillate between spiraling about the depressing thought of being middle aged and denying that it'll ever happen to me. I liked how the Substance showed how much pain women will inflict on themselves. The patriarchy is still the driving force, but it's not like she did all this to get a guy, she still looked banging at 50. Her vanity was very self-centered. I relate to that, and I think a lot of young women relate to that.
I was so shaky after this film that I couldn't even ride a lime bike home (and I cycle everywhere). But weirdly I don't think it was the horror of the gore so much as the horror of seeing a woman's self loathing writ so large (I think The Cut's review said a similar thing). The makeup scene made me want to cry. I thought, 'But you're so beautiful!' and then felt even worse, because that response underlined the point - my instinctive reaction was still based on her looks. I enjoyed listening to the director talk about it on the Mubi podcast - she discusses how difficult it was filming that scene, and the tension on set prior because everyone knew this was The Scene. Another body horror it reminded me of was Titane, the French film which won the Palme D'Or in 2021.
I feel like Emily Gould's review on The Cut seemed to miss the point/tradition of the genre. The suggestion of replacing the crone finger with "a few strands of gray hair, a paunch, forehead wrinkles"? Huh?? The crone finger of no return is the whole point and carries the momentum of the movie!
I was trying to think of the closest thing I’ve had to this and I think it’s looking back at photos of myself and trying to recreate the circumstances that led to looking/feeling a certain way.
The other thing would obviously be waking up hungover and being like why the hell did I drink/eat/say that… even though in the moment knowing it felt good.
Yes! + looking at old photos and thinking “wow I actually looked great back then when I was tormenting myself about my looks, which I’m still doing now”
The Facemaker by Lindsay Fitzharris is a very good read on the origins of plastic surgery as a specialty. First time I heard that the “plastic” in plastic surgery is actually a reference to a Greek word meaning malleable and predated what we think plastic means by almost a century. It’s amazing that it really came into its own repairing the faces of WWI soldiers and now is primarily thought of as a way to make your butt bigger.
Shocked that the recent Norwegian film "Sick of Myself" hasn't been brought up. Same director as Dream Scenario, and one of my fav movies of 2023. 100% in the genre of "body horror" with some Scandinavian dry humor parsed in - ultimately showing the great lengths you go just to have your bf pay attention to you again
Almodovar's The Skin I Live In is chilling and excellent. I saw it when it first came out (2011), can't bring myself to watch it since, and think about it all the time
I came to the comments to mention this one as well! So disturbing that I don't know if I can "recommend" The Skin I Live In, but it's very good looking and one that I still think about.
What an incredible movie. I still can't stop thinking about it
I love how angry and violent the movie was-- the movie does such a great job of highlighting how important appearances are, but also that there's never any escaping your own body.
I'm two weeks out from my (fourth!) cosmetic surgery, and I'm thankful I have that option, but also exhausted and frustrated, and it's hard to admit to myself that there are limits, and at some point it has to be enough.
Thank you for this! For some reason I can’t stand watching gore/body horror/anything violent but have no trouble reading it… working my way through Blood Meridian right now which is really just men being violent for 350 pages straight, obviously not on the beauty topic but very addictive. I’ve read mixed reviews on Rouge but I’m looking forward to reading it. Also, thank you so much for the subscription!
I thought the tug of war between Elizabeth and Sue was powerful, when Sue stops having any sympathy for Elizabeth and goes completely off the rails, that was hard to watch. The ending was over the top, but I think given the build-up a more subtle ending would have been anticlimactic — I think the grotesque-ness of the climax is on par with the body horror genre.
A powerfully meta role from Moore, she is playing a stylized but real dynamic that she is going through. Not sure how many actors could have nailed that performance so well. I was surprised how much it impressed me, it did rattle the friend I went with though.
Not about cosmetic enhancement or the quest for youth, but Cronenberg’s remake of the 1957 movie The Fly is top-shelf body horror and one of his best films. Still has a lot of parallels though.
Well now I'm dying to see The Substance! Have you read Rouge by Mona Awad? Weird, trippy, and all about the obsession with youth and beauty. (Think Glossier meets Death Becomes Her.)
I started but I actually didn't love it so I put it down. It was a very slow start for me.
I wanted to love it more than I did! There’s a better book to be carved out of Rouge had Awad gone less fable, more visceral.
Agree
Agree! I loved “Bunny” and loved the premise of Rouge but was disappointed by it
Same here, was really intrigued by the premise.
came here to say this^^
Saw the movie on Saturday and it fully took me out for the evening. Hated how much of myself I saw in Elisabeth, especially within career. Is it even possible to not hate myself in 40 years?? I also kept flashing to Christina Aguilera and the new "undetectable era"
I was surprised with the length and indulgence of male gaze Margaret Qualley scenes there were. It made me hate my body more, and the men I was with listen up. Maybe that was the point. Would love to hear thoughts there
I thought some of the shots on Margaret's (awesome) ass were a little long as well, but I think it was supposed to make the viewer uncomfortable. It removed the sex for me, she became a total object.
for me it was less male gaze and more the fact that for some people - for me at least - our own gaze is as harmful and invasive and controlling and alienating. esp when she first stepped into the other self body and the way she was looking at herself and admiring and feeling herself. but also some of the Pump it Up scenes i think were trying (maybe not succeeding) to make MQ's physicality seem grotesque in its own way?
It seemed grotesque but if you drive around LA, those Los Angeles Apparel billboards look exactly like Sue in those workout scenes.
yeah def talking about the Pump it Up Scenes. I do think it's interesting she looked obviously so good yet the sex was taken away like you and Emily mentioned.
Saw this last night and I can’t believe I had to come to work this morning. Post Substance sick day should be compulsory.
Love LOVE your required reading references. I was so floored by how closely the final images (monster Elisasue) resemble the old black and white Elephant Man. It MUST have been on purpose and I want to tease it out further…
This was a niche reference, and someone told me not to include it, but I also kept thinking about all the apes in Chimp Crazy who got killed by their owners when everyone in the audience started shouting "FREAK! KILL IT!" at the end. People build and encourage monsters, and then want to destroy them once they're not what they thought they were.
There were some Elephant Man references on Reddit, you're on the money.
just saw it last night. this movie was fucking uncanny in its portrayal of my inner life lol. it was so much more than i expected. it had me thinking about understanding vanity not as a smug obsession with one's own beauty but, beauty or "ugliness" aside, as an inward turn away from the world - and i took the flat fakeness of the world around her as less a comment on hollywood being shallow and more on the fact that she was so consumed by her own self loathing that she barely existed on earth. it's about self harm and how hard it is to have cohesion between your happy self and your saddest self!! it also was so much about how consciousness and body are not separate and can't be separated!!!! even though she was one consciousness flipping between the two bodies, she effectively became a different consciousness in a different body, because your consciousness is your body and vice versa!!! omg i could go on. what a movie
Oh it makes me so happy that some of you have seen it, I needed people to discuss it with.
YES re: consciousness. The repetition by the phone operator, "You are one." I thought about this caption by Remi Bader also, which made me cry when I read it:
https://www.instagram.com/p/C_TxH-mpu4z/?hl=en
We are who we are who we are who we are.
I also loved that the first words we hear from Elisabeth are "You don't want to look like a giant jellyfish," while teaching the workout class and then in that last scene... it's exactly what she looked like.
omg did not even notice the jellyfish connection 😭😭😭 incredible. also somehow it rly got me that the street cleaner at the end was the only person we ever saw try to be respectful of her and step carefully over the star.
In terms of satire of ageism in Hollywood, can't go wrong with Mulholland Drive and Sunset Boulevard
Also saw this at Nitehawk last week which was the move. Seeing the Substance and reading All Fours in the same week made me oscillate between spiraling about the depressing thought of being middle aged and denying that it'll ever happen to me. I liked how the Substance showed how much pain women will inflict on themselves. The patriarchy is still the driving force, but it's not like she did all this to get a guy, she still looked banging at 50. Her vanity was very self-centered. I relate to that, and I think a lot of young women relate to that.
I was so shaky after this film that I couldn't even ride a lime bike home (and I cycle everywhere). But weirdly I don't think it was the horror of the gore so much as the horror of seeing a woman's self loathing writ so large (I think The Cut's review said a similar thing). The makeup scene made me want to cry. I thought, 'But you're so beautiful!' and then felt even worse, because that response underlined the point - my instinctive reaction was still based on her looks. I enjoyed listening to the director talk about it on the Mubi podcast - she discusses how difficult it was filming that scene, and the tension on set prior because everyone knew this was The Scene. Another body horror it reminded me of was Titane, the French film which won the Palme D'Or in 2021.
I feel like Emily Gould's review on The Cut seemed to miss the point/tradition of the genre. The suggestion of replacing the crone finger with "a few strands of gray hair, a paunch, forehead wrinkles"? Huh?? The crone finger of no return is the whole point and carries the momentum of the movie!
Yeah I don’t agree with some of the reviews, i think a lot of them missed the satire and silliness of the whole thing
The podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-substance-coralie-fargeat-rips-beauty-standards/id1569229544?i=1000670018000
Also enjoyed some of the cinematic easter eggs, like the orange corridor referencing the hallway from The Shining.
Ditto! The Vertigo theme / moment especially. I loved how the film was so in-conversation with the film industry.
The Face also interviewed her about some of her refs/ films she’d says influenced her https://www.instagram.com/p/DAOiyyBtnGX/?igsh=NjJhOXh3c2Q5amY3
I was really moved by how Elisabeth increasingly despised her “ideal self”
I was trying to think of the closest thing I’ve had to this and I think it’s looking back at photos of myself and trying to recreate the circumstances that led to looking/feeling a certain way.
The other thing would obviously be waking up hungover and being like why the hell did I drink/eat/say that… even though in the moment knowing it felt good.
Yes! + looking at old photos and thinking “wow I actually looked great back then when I was tormenting myself about my looks, which I’m still doing now”
Great TZ episode. I thought of this scene from Silicon Valley (one of my all time favorite shows).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBA0AH-LSbo
SIlicon Valley is so quotable. I think I need to watch from E1.
The Facemaker by Lindsay Fitzharris is a very good read on the origins of plastic surgery as a specialty. First time I heard that the “plastic” in plastic surgery is actually a reference to a Greek word meaning malleable and predated what we think plastic means by almost a century. It’s amazing that it really came into its own repairing the faces of WWI soldiers and now is primarily thought of as a way to make your butt bigger.
Shocked that the recent Norwegian film "Sick of Myself" hasn't been brought up. Same director as Dream Scenario, and one of my fav movies of 2023. 100% in the genre of "body horror" with some Scandinavian dry humor parsed in - ultimately showing the great lengths you go just to have your bf pay attention to you again
Came here to suggest this! I absolutely love this movie and it does a brilliant job skewering certain dynamics in art and fashion.
Wow Feed Me movie club loading…
Almodovar's The Skin I Live In is chilling and excellent. I saw it when it first came out (2011), can't bring myself to watch it since, and think about it all the time
I came to the comments to mention this one as well! So disturbing that I don't know if I can "recommend" The Skin I Live In, but it's very good looking and one that I still think about.
What an incredible movie. I still can't stop thinking about it
I love how angry and violent the movie was-- the movie does such a great job of highlighting how important appearances are, but also that there's never any escaping your own body.
I'm two weeks out from my (fourth!) cosmetic surgery, and I'm thankful I have that option, but also exhausted and frustrated, and it's hard to admit to myself that there are limits, and at some point it has to be enough.
Thank you for this! For some reason I can’t stand watching gore/body horror/anything violent but have no trouble reading it… working my way through Blood Meridian right now which is really just men being violent for 350 pages straight, obviously not on the beauty topic but very addictive. I’ve read mixed reviews on Rouge but I’m looking forward to reading it. Also, thank you so much for the subscription!
I thought the tug of war between Elizabeth and Sue was powerful, when Sue stops having any sympathy for Elizabeth and goes completely off the rails, that was hard to watch. The ending was over the top, but I think given the build-up a more subtle ending would have been anticlimactic — I think the grotesque-ness of the climax is on par with the body horror genre.
A powerfully meta role from Moore, she is playing a stylized but real dynamic that she is going through. Not sure how many actors could have nailed that performance so well. I was surprised how much it impressed me, it did rattle the friend I went with though.
The sound effects at the end that she did were INCREDIBLE
Not about cosmetic enhancement or the quest for youth, but Cronenberg’s remake of the 1957 movie The Fly is top-shelf body horror and one of his best films. Still has a lot of parallels though.